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Gama13


Beiträge: 23

01.08.2013 15:51
#16 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

Zitat
in France there is some trouble too with the big filmstudios and dubbing. Maybe an international problem.



The worst case that was when Patrick Poivey, the official voice of Bruce Willis since 80's (and sometimes Terence Hill, Tom Cruise, Michael Biehn, and Francis in Felidae) was subtitute for "The 5th Element". His successor was good actor, but absolutely does not correspond to Bruce Willis. The reason : Officially, it's because Luc Besson wanted a disillusioned voice (I'm sure that Poivey can do it...), but the real reason it's cause the artistic director lied to Besson and saying that Poivey demanded an exorbitant salary, but this is false, Poivey said often he voiced Willis for pleasure (he participes to ammateur dubbing)...

Gama13


Beiträge: 23

01.08.2013 20:10
#17 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

There's two years, I created a video who compared 3 dub versions for one movie, Castle of Cagliostro (Hayao Miyazaki, 1979) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0kJCLcJt2c

Notes :
The Hero as not called "Lupin the Third" because of a disagreement with Maurice Leblanc's heirs (original creator of "Arsène Lupin). So, the hero as various named, but the most regular as " Edgar de la Cambriole" ("Edgar von der Dieb").

In the first (and strange) version, scenes include Goemon (the samurai) are cut and the end shortened. I think the first german version has the same modification, right ?

The second dub has based to an american version.

Anyway, enjoy with video^^


Knew-King



Beiträge: 5.306

01.08.2013 22:47
#18 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

Salut!
Right, we had two dubs.
The first was based on the US-"Hardyman"-Version which did not feature Goemon. Lupin/Hardyman was voiced by a young Tommi Piper (famous for beeing the german voice of ALF. Also the better Nick Nolte .).
The second dub came many years later and featured the voice actors from the other Lupin Films which were running for the first time around 2002 in Germany.
The dialogues in Lupin are kind of in the tradition of "Sprüche-Synchro" (Doublage absurde). A lot of funny, sloppy talk.
Adieu!


Gama13


Beiträge: 23

02.08.2013 12:14
#19 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

Gutentag^^

Zitat
The second dub came many years later and featured the voice actors from the other Lupin Films



It's like for the third french version (2005) who brings together actors who voiced for other title of Lupin franchise (the first TV serie, Secret of Mamo...) at 2005.

But it seems to me that the first American dub occurred in 1991 with Goemon scenes ? It's that version which was adapted for the second french dub.


Gama13


Beiträge: 23

02.08.2013 19:32
#20 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

For Disney fans ! Here an interesting archive about documentary about the late 1962's dub of "Snow White" (unfortunately redubbed at 2001) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDyZyhUvuw4

Featured Lucie Dolène (Snow-White, speaking & singing)
Richard Francoeur (Doc)
Léonce Corne (Grumpy)
Raymond Rognoni (Happy)
Georges Hubert (Sleepy)
Maurice Nasil (Bashful)
& Jean Daurand (Sneezy)

fortinbras ( gelöscht )
Beiträge:

02.08.2013 22:28
#21 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

Hi Gama13!

In the last years, 10 or 15, it was very popular in animated films to cast famous actors and celebritys for dubbing. Some of them were (or still are) not really useful as voice actors. Popular comedians, filmstars, and so on-some enjoyed that kind of dubbing, I don't like that stuff. In some cases it was really embarassing to hear such miscast voices, just used because of their popularity on film or TV. Not all animated films were made that way, but some.
When a popular actor, singer or comedian does that dubbing, he is acting in his own individual style and he does speak in his usually manner. This doesn't work, because it has nothing to do with the characters you see on the screen. Some like that dubbings, some don't. Are there in France similar dubbings?

One of the rare occassions that this happened to a film with real actors was french hit movie "8 Femmes" by Francoise Ozon.
We have a lot of talented dubbing actresses of all age. And some of the actresses in that film really had a regular german dubbing voice.
Someone had the idea not to use that dubbing voices, but to cast popular film and tv-actresses. Of course they were very popular, some of them also had a little experience in dubbing. But most of them are only known as acting on the screen.
Catherine Deneuve got the voice of popular star Senta Berger. Danielle Darrieux got Ruth Maria Kubitschek, who is most famous for her romantic entertaining tv-movies over the last two decades. Fanny Ardant got Hannelore Elsner. She was for a short time the dubbing voice of Liza Minelli, but gave up dubbing in the mid seventies. She's a big, big star. And so on.
They weren't bad-but it was something wrong in that film. It was not the familiar sound of german dubbed movies. It was strange stuff to the ear. And there was a lot of newspaper articles and some things on TV. There these actresses talked about dubbing. But there was certainly no interest in dubbing, that was only because they were famous!


"Was ist mit der Gelantine, die wir an dem Pfahl gefunden haben?"

G. G. Hoffmann in "Dracula jagt Frankenstein"

Gama13


Beiträge: 23

02.08.2013 22:58
#22 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

I can tell that the problem is similar in France...Many stars are contacted for voiced animation blockbuster, with more or less success. What annoys me is that it's journalists, sportsmen or humorist, without actor experience, are contacted, and they have an higher salary than professional dubbing actors (who are most talented). For the next Pixar movie, Plane, They contacted pilots of the French aviation (I am f*ckin' serious)...

However, it there's been success, like Jean Reno : He has voiced Mufasa in Disney's Lion King and Hayao Miyazaki's Porco Rosso, and it was beautiful ! He has been involved in this work, and it was even unrecognizable like Mufasa !

I can to quote the french rock singer Eddy Mitchell in Don Bluth Rock-A-Doodle, he has done an excellent job like singer off course but like voice-actor too ! And Lambert Wilson began his career with dubbing (he voiced David Caruso in Rambo-First Blood for example).

I Think that a star should be casted wisely for dubbing.

German version of "8 Femmes" seems sympatic. The songs are they adapted in German ?


fortinbras ( gelöscht )
Beiträge:

03.08.2013 09:32
#23 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

"8 Femmes":

In some way the german dubbing really is sympatic. After watching the movie three or four times you begin to like it a bit. But first it wasn't really a delight. When one doesn't know the usual dubbing voices, he has no trouble with this version. Some have, even when they have no really interest in dubbing. My grandmother liked the film but said: "Why haven't they made a german version with those actresses as a real film? That sounds not very good!" She wasn't very delightet to hear such star-actresses and not to see them.
How wonderfully dubbing is paid, they said. And with how much care made, and a lot of time. What else??? They were stars, so they got perfect conditions for their work. Only Senta Berger told an austrian newspaper, that it's bad to hear how little money most dubbers get and that they had to work in very worse situations. She said: "How extremely lonely an actor must feel, when he's standing hours and hours in the dubbing studio and there is no one to act with. A lot of people say, that today there are only bad dubbing voices. That's not fair! When one has to speak love scenes, dramatic scenes, wonderful witty dialog and is completely alone: so can't come good work out of it, tension and mood! An actor needs someone to act with, except it's a one-person-play or movie. And what we ladies got now was standard in the 50's and 60's-time, care and good money. This should get everyone when doing this job!"

The songs weren't dubbed. They were subtitled and that was great. That mood couldn't be remade by dubbing.
With the exception of Disney productions or animated films in general, songs weren't dubbed into german since the late 60's. Before that time it was in many cases that songs were dubbed. Sometimes with success, but mostly not-from my point of view.


"Was ist mit der Gelantine, die wir an dem Pfahl gefunden haben?"

G. G. Hoffmann in "Dracula jagt Frankenstein"

fortinbras ( gelöscht )
Beiträge:

05.08.2013 19:23
#24 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

@ Gama13:

How are french translations of foreign movie titles? In Germany especially from the 60's to the 80's we got some terrible titles. Some of them are funny, some very good-but a lot of them really awful or against the sense of the original title.
Mostly western, horror or comedy-movies were the victims of such title changings. Louis de Funes' films got some really dreadful titles. In many of the german dubbings the title had the name "Balduin, the...." or "Louis, the..." or sometimes "Oscar....". In some of them the real name of his character wasn't changed, so the name was in title used only.
"La Soup aux Chaux" for example has a terrible german title. Oh, oh-I don't know the englisch word for "Kohlköpfe"/"Chaux" now (my brain is damaged from heat). So I improvise: "Louis and his extraterrestrial vegetable". "Hibernatus" was in german "Uncle Paul, the great plum", "Jo" was "Catch me, I'm the murderer" or "Le Corniaud" was "Hot Things for Monsieur".
A lot of italian western-movies got the character of "Django" into their titles-but they had nothing to to with him.
The british horrorclassic "The Gorgon" was titled "The burning eyes of Bartimore Castle". All in the movie had german names even in the dubbed version-so it does make no sense why an old castle in a middle european town should have an english name!
"Scream and scream again" was titled "Die living Corpses of Dr. Mabuse"-that character was originally called simply Browning! "Twins of Evil" was in Germany "The Witchhunt of Dracula"-there's no Dracula in the movies.
A lot of titles were completely changed just to make them funnier or sounding more horrible.

How ist that in France? Or how was it?

To be fair-a lot of changed titles were more subtle than the original one or were in the right sense of the movie. So "Once upon a time in the west" was in german "Play me the song of Death"-the english translation sounds not so well as the poetic german "Spiel mir das Lied vom Tod".


"Was ist mit der Gelantine, die wir an dem Pfahl gefunden haben?"

G. G. Hoffmann in "Dracula jagt Frankenstein"

Isch
Listenpfleger

Beiträge: 3.402

06.08.2013 11:21
#25 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

Zitat von fortinbras im Beitrag #24
So "Once upon a time in the west" was in german "Play me the song of Death"-the english translation sounds not so well as the poetic german "Spiel mir das Lied vom Tod".

No, it really doesn't.

Gama13


Beiträge: 23

06.08.2013 12:31
#26 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

It's similar in France, especially for Terence Hill movies. Many westerns with Terence are called "Trinity" (Trinita in french version) then it's not films belonging of the Trinity franchise. We have for example "Rita nel West", who became "Trinity says you hello" where Terence character as called Trinity and not Black Star like in original (this movie as released in France after the first Trinity movie who has a success).
But many Bud Spencer/ Terence Hill movies are titles not similar of original titles ("Crime Busters" became "Two Supercops"), or borrows French expressions ("Go For It" became "When you gotta go, gotta go").

In 80's, many action-fantastic movies are typical french titles. Example : Innerspace (Joe Dante, 1987) became in french "The Inside Adventure", the first Die Hard movie became "Crystal Trap", many James Bond movies...

Now, until the success of "The Hangover" who became "Very Bad Trip" in french, many french titles borrows a similar titles ("The Other Guys" with Mark Whalberg became "Very Bad Cops", "Visioneers" with Zach Galifianikis became "Very Big Stress...).

Zitat
So "Once upon a time in the west" was in german "Play me the song of Death"-the english translation sounds not so well as the poetic german "Spiel mir das Lied vom Tod".



I think the german title as great !

fortinbras ( gelöscht )
Beiträge:

06.08.2013 13:52
#27 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

Spencer/Hill-films usually were retidled in the same way as in France. Some titles are really funny, some dreadful.

The first James Bond was originally called "Jamaica W 6 N doesn't answer". But they changed it to "James Bond-007 is hunting Dr. No" when the trailer was made/dubbed.
Most of the Bonds have similiar titles or just little changes. So "Thunderball" became "Fireball". Later "Diamonds are forever" was titled "Diamondfever" (translated literally). A long time it wasn't usual to take english titles in Germany. Well, "Goldfinger" was just "Goldfinger" (that was a name, so it was no problem). But "Moonraker" was made to "Moonraker-Top Secret". "For your eyes only" is "In deadly Mission", "A View to a Kill" is something like "Face to Face with Death". "The living Daylights" doesn't make any sense in german, that was called "The Touch of Death". In the film, when Bond says "He's felt the living daylights." dubbed he says "He's felt the touch of death". Maybe one also can use "Breath" instead of "Touch". The translation was great, because the sense of the saying is exactly the same.

Here in the Forum is a thread abot german actors not heared with their own voice. Some german actors made some films in other languages and sometimes had no time to dub themselfes later.
Romy Schneider made always the dubbing of her films, with just very few exceptions. Helmut Berger we only know with his own voice in some german made films. Klaus Kinski is rarely heard with his own voice, when the films were not german productions. In some movies he had the same dubbing voice as Louis de Funes (and Frank Sinatra!).
Some german stars are accepted with voices from strangers, some not. Oskar Werner had an incredible and famous voice. In "Jules at Jim" he was dubbed by a very good actor, but with an absolutely different voice. There were no similarities. After 50 years people are still angry to hear this dubbing. He always dubbed himself.
Do you know some similar cases in France? Where people was a bit disturbed to heir their native actors with a different voice?


"Was ist mit der Gelantine, die wir an dem Pfahl gefunden haben?"

G. G. Hoffmann in "Dracula jagt Frankenstein"

Gama13


Beiträge: 23

06.08.2013 14:24
#28 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

Yes, there are similar cases in France, but for different reasons : Lino Ventura refused to dubbing himself for one of his movies, because he got angry during recordings. Jean-Claude Van Damme has never dub himself (it's often Patrice Baudrier). But generally, french actors accept to voiced their roles in stranger movies, like the very sympatic Christopher Lambert, Bourvil, Sophie Marceau...

Sometimes, some stranger stars accept to dub their roles, like Jodie Foster, who talk french perfectly, who dub herself in many films (but there's exceptions like Silence of the Lambs), Maryam D'Abo in 007 The Living Daylight...

Many stars, however, were reluctant about this, dubbing was considered like an aberration. But now it is softened.


Isch
Listenpfleger

Beiträge: 3.402

06.08.2013 19:36
#29 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

That's new! Non native-speakers dubbing themselves in foreign-movies. I think the only one who did this in german dubbings was Sir Peter Ustinov. He provided german dubbing in a handful of his films, although he isn't german, but, of course, english.
The only other actor, that comes in my mind, that actually could do this is Sarah Chalke. She's canadian but speaks german fluently. Maybe Sandra Bullock, as she lived in Germany until she was 14, but her ability (and willingsness) to speak german has somewhat deceased.

There are indeed many other cases where german actors provided their voices in english-speaking films or even TV Shows like Werner Herzog on "The Simpsons", Diane Kruger in a few movies and, of course, Christoph Waltz in the Tarantino movies.
Did Mélanie Laurent dub herself in the french version of "Inglorious Basterds"?

VanToby
Forumsleiter

Beiträge: 26.121

06.08.2013 22:15
#30 RE: Hello Zitat · antworten

Zitat von Isch im Beitrag #29
That's new! Non native-speakers dubbing themselves in foreign-movies. I think the only one who did this in german dubbings was Sir Peter Ustinov. He provided german dubbing in a handful of his films, although he isn't german, but, of course, english.


It's the same with Chris Howland. Also, Alfred Hitchcock himself dubbed himself in the PSYCHO trailer. Such as Marlene Jobert and Charles Bronson in LE PASSAGER DE LA PLUIE, as someone posted a few months ago.

Recently, there was a big discussion about Danny DeVito providing his voice as THE LORAX not only in the English version, but also in the German one and some others. He doesn't speak any of these languages, so they had to provide to him all the dialogues in phonetic spelling. I'm so admiring the French dubbing executives for not participating in that blunder.


"Diese Signale wurden gesendet, um auf sie aufmerksam zu machen."

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